Dear Simplicius (a Galilean dialogue starts), You say Witchdoctor got Entropy wrong?
Dear Simplicius, don´t think so. That the events in a system are inherently, by nature, entropic, lies in the fact that entropy evolves in a local or a closed system. So, where is entropy, it is in the closed spacetime or in the events evolving in the closed spacetime? Certainly not in the spacetime per se, but within the evolving system in spacetime. So the events are entropic and that means they have a entropic nature.Basically, where there is no more room to move for the system of events, the final entropy rolls in. Now, what is a room to move in a room with a glass of water where the two temperatures, the room and the water one get equal ? The room. It equalizes the glass of water temp, and so for a tiny fraction rises or lowers the room temp, depending if the water in a glass is hot or cold and they get even , temp prevailing from the bigger space…
But instead of a glass of water, if we put in a room a generator of heat and prevent the generator from exchanging energy outside the room?
We get something similar to sun.In a room.Sun room. Boom.
That is why spacetime expansion lowers the inner system entropy.And that is why nothing is wrong with the previous post.
So, the Roman Empire had to Expand , because
Entropy
a thermodynamic quantity representing the amount of energy in a system that is no longer available for doing useful work
was happening.
And so, the whole capitalist system has to expand even by buying the future through Money-Debt, and That is why the MMT has the Job Guarantee as a way to bring back the useful work and lower back the entropy.
And that is why the Debt Free money goes a step further.
For you own sake of surviving.
Ok, lets expand Witchdoctor definition of Entropy, cleaned from the utilitarian order fans wackiness:
Value is here meant in it broadest meaning. Value is measurement and measurement is Value. Like value/measurement of spin, speed, mass, energy . Value is the difference in measurement and the other way around, both are inherently intertwined.
Now, dear Simplicius, we have a problem. Is entropy at the end just a semantic trap? A play of words? Like, when they say Entropy moves from Order to Disorder/Chaos? Everything is moving from Order to Disorder!? The inevitable chain of events? Even if the Universe is expanding , the information entropy is not proved to be rising, overall entropy is not rising au pair with the expansion,and even we do not know almost nothing about the cosmological fundamentals – the 95% of non visible-dark matter and dark energy of the so called Universe, which is working on spacetime relativity, then what conclusions we can draw on a cosmological scale? Nada, maybe?
If we look at the Entropy from the point of view of Order-Chaos, then; Chaos/ Disorder first and Then the low “Order” entropy” as is the rise of Aztec fascist state with its Human sacrifices (maybe to reduce entropy in this model?), Egypt Pharaoh Pyramid God given autocracy and the flight of the Jews from this system to avoid being the culprit of Entropy, The Hitler Order, Stalin Order, Ayatollah order, Erdogan, Trump wall, China, Eurozone par excellence, ALL of this systems are a sign of Low Entropy, being so orderly insane?
Dear Simplicius, are you laughing? Are this insane systems a good thing,a low entropy order because there was Chaos before them or what?What was before and what after to assign low entropy to such a high insane order where everything worked as a clockwork (Orange)?
This is JUST RIDICULOUS and this “Entropy”sounds so utilitarian/totalitarian that one starts to puke having convulsions, without even drinking much!
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As For the Chinese entropic system, the Chinese friends will understand it better , since they know about the Dao (Tao) and Harmony principles. So entropy is very near in this mindset and the implications of entropy can be better understood.
China is currently, due to its huge population number and the economic model it chose , mimicking the west, a high entropy machine, which needs expansion to prevent entropic inner death as the result of the concocted (with the help of the “friends” from the west- the global washington consensus and the free trade entropic trap) system it uses.
They export their entropy in huge numbers and they even export population to lower the inner entropic pressure- they talk of 100 million people moving only to Africa….
China is shopping for food and building a food chain for its inner entropy,silk road is just a euphemism, exporting tech and infrastructure building . And indebting the recipients of this “help”. That is why they are moving to Europe.Buying butter ( a huge price hike in a year), milk and cheese and wine and since the Eurozone is lacking its own money in the austerity investment mood, the Chinese are building instead and counting the debt income, as the IMF did and does around the world.See the brilliant results of IMF same recipes in South America.
Chinese are not looking for high tech. They have it or they will copy it and develop it. They need food and wine. meat or some fancy sauces, and they will make and export their electric cars and all other tech gadgets. The European ports are full of one way silk road, importing EVERYTHING from China. Ok, even tomatoes.But the butter, cheese, and wine and milk and meat, that is the new European perspective ,the new plan for Europe of the European “entropic” (Hahaha) masters-feeding the upper Chinese classes and selling them some fashion, too. And being the Chinese tourist Disneyland of a strange fairy tale architecture.
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Now a small trick of the neoliberal capitalism. In order to cover the whole population with some decent standard of living and have some customers, the neoliberal entropic machine needs a huge amount of intake of energy and “useful work” (another entropy formula,,) to produce wast number of goods, they have to be exported in Chinese situation and by this China incredible entropic growth, for decades now, some of this energy intake will “trickle down” and this “trickling down”is delivering a better living standards and new customers – the masses. But the whole entropy is, as usual, being forcefully (a contradiction leading to explosion) kept low by the Order and on the other hand it is being paid by their environment and a huge energy consumption and by making deadly entropic the other countries and regions..Pretty far from the Harmony or low entropy.
There are black spots growing everywhere. Entropy rots the Earth,people, makes slums, rots the air , water, land,there are whole systems slowly degrading, like health, pension systems, whole chunks of dead, entropic public sectors with no dynamics, rotting…. debris of the blind spots spreading around.And the Order of wacky generals of the “low entropy” is spreading.
Dear Simplicius, are we here in a semantic trap of the current Entropy Order-Disorder definition? Or, even worse, does this approach to entropy brings Ideology and the science of the worst kind, makes science a bad myth and sells us a Nazi order as the model of the low entropy? In which the useful work- another Entropy definition- of the system- Arbeit mach frei (Work makes you free)- was sustained by burning Jews in the concentration camps (which now, they, Israel- a Jewish constitutional place of Jews, use the same low entropy by having Gaza and Arabs living in Jewland as the model?).
And to put the Entropy cherry on the cake, many of them are exporting war to lower the inner entropy.
Do you see and smell the burning semantic trap?
So, to not fall in such a semantic trap, lets repeat the Witchoctor entropy definition:the extinction and suppression of an initial chain of events- phenomena as they appear at the beginning,with a loss or/and transformation of value.
Lets see Entropy in the plants . Here we enter the Gaia theory, because we have to think also about Ilya Prigogine, a Nobel prize.
Organic life organizes itself in chain of evens and phenomena where the components feed on other components- one another entropy feeding, like food chains, decay- humus,-growth,mutual proliferation control, Impollination specialization…., the organizing-reorganizing results with the lowering of the overall entropy result.. And the different Arrow of Time for each of the participants.This is WD conclusion
They say that , by intake of energy- sun-minerals, etc, photosynthesis, the plants organize themselves in a low entropy models. Ok, but they-the plants die,forget the other entropic circumstances. so we can conclude that Entropy, even in a low entropy model, is always at work and that any organized model has an inner end /clock. This end is not certain and nobody can calculate it, except when this chains, established in layers through millions of years are broken by some highly entropic event, like the rise of humans in mad numbers and their deadly non controlled , proliferating profit entropic system of living. The low entropy organic flora/fauna-plant, animal chains on Earth Gaia are already broken beyond repair and the final overall rise in entropy has begun, Maybe really this is the flapping of a last dying butterfly as the sign..Entropy is inherent within the chain of events and loss or transformation of value, but as Ilya Prigogine proves the dynamic disequilibrium permits the system to stay in low entropy- non equlibrium- and by getting highly organized to survive.
Which is absolutely not a case of the Human parasite who is madly proliferating withot classic nature restraints as in Gaia.
And also, even more important, there is no need for Hitler as a sign and proof of low entropy. The system is in low entropy only if there is a dynamic non equilibrium. Earth-a planet-docet-proves it.
But Mars denies it, there is a huge non equilibrium and Mars is not low entropy,the opposite.. So, we need a third party to make a system dynamic for the low entropy. Like water, … and this system is apparently non homogenous with some laws. Prigogine “Order out of chaos” is misleading by the WD argumentations , but the inherent self organizing and consequent low entropy is a fact.
A case of two plants, one lives 6 months and the other, the Kauri Tree, hi there Kane Mahuta, lives thousands of years.This is a proof of how to organize the inner entropy in low mood and the Kauri Tree proves it.So, entropy is inherent and it even differs. The speed of entropy is not the same for similar types of life. We have different speeds of entropy in the same closed system! And consequently different Arrows of Time!
Where in this Gaia Earth system of evolution where each events feeds on event entropy of others you can find this definition of Entropy (Encyclopedia Britannica);
more and more energy becomes unavailable for conversion into work?
Ok, maybe after a fire or a big drought locally,but this is almost ridiculous, it negates the origin of life.
The principle of degrading energy-entropy, is just a segment view on a N scale-plane. It is a deliberate cut-patch-segment taken out of the dynamical process, and Not a cosmological reason of the flow of events.
Segmentation is the way how human parasite discovers and solves events-problems, from Euclid on.On the other hand it is also a trap leading to proliferation of fractalic explanations.
The search for the “unit”, the lego of “building bricks” as the way to solve complicated figures and planes, the way to define forces, make constants, is the only way how the human mind grasps the outside.
The rebuilding of the observable in building bricks planes and components leads to mechanics. By mirror image, so does the system of society which organizes itself , from the industrial era onwards at ever greatest speed to a Techne Machine and by doing so, produces the mirror image of the human parasite as a techne machine mindset and behavior..
Do not worry, your fridge and airconditioner still work on the entropy principles, But exactly this fridge , making the “useful work”, is another suspicious definition about general entropy, smelling more as a ideologic economy statement of what is useful in the Universe!
From this “useful work” definition about working of entropy we are in the Techne- Simplicius, it is all greek to you, (see more on that from Umberto Galimberti work), and from Techne , transmutating it today in technic and we are inside the Machine (Cartesius is always around the corner) – technology and this is mechanics.The mechanics system, very far from the Universe,but good for your car and for organizing the society on the same principles..Matrix.
Taking seriously the entropic principle, we can conclude that it essentially moves between two semantic poles; Organize-Reorganize.
And this is Techne. And from here on it is local mechanics. A lot of current semantics is an ideological antropomorphic myth with Hitler as a cherry on the cake.
But this is very far from how Universe works. Even if we conclude that the universe is a closed system but at the same time putting in this that Universe is expanding -a “small” contradiction,that the Universe is of a relativistic nature of relativistic spacetime, which means a non possibility to calculate the relations in whole, not forgetting the strange antientropic behavior of Water,which brings in all the arguments of the Not Known Builder posts by WD, when making such assertions, when 95% of the Universe is Not Known, being not visible-”dark matter and energy”,and that only 5% of Events SpaceTime is somewhat known, is ridiculous to draw big conclusions. So, Entropy, anyone?
BFIG BFANG, LIGHT , ENTROPY
Now, from the point of view of the light ray, the time is Zero. Well, here we have to use semantics. Is Zero Time equal to Now?What is Zero Time in Spacetime? Hmmm, then it is Zero to infinite. No Number. So, it is NOW.
Now, Imagine the Bfig Bfang in Now time,which is still NOW, Light just came NOW and events start to evolve…. Entropy?Now? Sounds funny, but…A Total space time relativistic expansion,Relativistic Spacetime Universe, direction is a misleading notion,it is NOW and events unfold-the extinction and suppression of an initial chain of events- phenomena as they appear at the beginning,with a loss or/and transformation of value,the events start evolving with different Arrows of Time..
The Universe, expanding in NO Direction (relativistic spacetime), NOW with different arrows of time.. Forget Order and Disorder, maybe think organize-reorganize.
that was fun…
Entropy real etimo meaning; With In Change
Witchdoctor
The End tale
Luckily or it was a Miracle, once upon the time a huge rock fell on Earth. At that time the Dinosaurs were madly proliferating, there was no more any natural non equlibrium constraint for their growth and they were destroying the fragile ecosystem….They were invincible and deadly dangerous to all, plants and animals, their excrements were rising in heaps like mountains, they were eating All.
Then from somewhere, the Rock Fell down and destroyed them.It Fell in Caribbean..The Dinosaur shit become solid rock And the Earth got a second chance….
Well, that was long time ago and …… then came the blue blood lizards. They were smaller, but deadlier.
Hm. Whos next?Rats, anyone?They are even smaller for being able to cope with their inner entropy….